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Hannah Fidell, left, Liz Garcia, Cherien Dabis, Naomi Foner and Gabriela Cowperthwaite. (Jay L. Clendenin / Los Angeles Times / January 22, 2013) |
Foner: Somebody asked me and I said the biggest training I had towards being a director was being a mother.
Garcia:Mmm. Yes.
Dabis: That's really funny. It's really true.
Garcia: That's really true. You have to be able to sort of treat everyone—I mean, it sounds weird to say "like they are a child," but let's just say like you are the parent. Compassion and strength and boundaries.
I was reminded by something you said the other day, Liz, but also what happened at the CAA party the other night. Did you guys read about this? Where CAA brought in female strippers with dildos to perform? With strap-ons.
Foner: I was there.
You were there?
Foner: I mean, I was there when the pole dancing was going on.
Were you offended by that?
Foner: Deeply. I said to my agent, "Is this how you want to brand yourself? Pole dancers? Really?" I didn't know what that was about.
Fidell: And they're not apologizing.
They apologized because they were caught.
Foner:The dildos, I missed. I would have been much more verbal if I had seen that. But, you know, I was like, "Really? Why?"
Well, "Why?" is my question. Liz, you talked about the male gaze. The way in which men shoot women in movies. The way they objectify them or the way the camera lingers over them. And I'm curious, consciously—or subconsciously—when you're making your movies—it's a little different with a documentary—when you're photographing, is there something intentional in your mind about how you want women to be shot that is not the way they're typically shot? That is not a vestige of, "Wouldn't it be great to have strippers with strap-ons doing entertainment?"
Foner:Well, I'll give you an example. And it's a little touchy. I have in my movie a first sexual experience. And I from the beginning wanted to do this—because it's iconic for everybody, male and female—from the point of view of the women to whom it was happening. Which meant immediately we weren't looking at it from here, watching two bodies over there. I wanted to do it so we were inside her head when it was happening. And I shot and edited this whole sequence. And I showed it to the producers and the people. And they were deeply offended by it. They said that it looked aggressive. You know, 'cause it was from a point of view of somebody having sex. You see this face and—
So it was her face and her body?
Foner:No, it's her seeing—
Fidell: The viewer was being penetrated.
I see. It's her point of view.
Foner:Yes. And it looked very aggressive. They didn't like it. And, in fact, there was a struggle about how much of it is still in the movie. There is not as much of it in, 'cause I didn't have the control to keep it all in.
